Rebecca Moravec, a counselor, shares her path of Overcoming limiting self-beliefs and combining financial success with helping others in Private Practice. If you struggle with a negativity in your overall thinking, don't miss this discussion. Rebecca is an example of never giving up on your dreams and passions due to negative thinking!
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About me:
My name is Sasha Raskin. I’m a Number 1 Best Selling Co-Author in 12 Countries, a Doctoral student in Counseling Education and Supervision, a coach, a psychotherapist and an adjunct faculty at a graduate counseling program at Naropa University.
One of the things I’m enjoying the most is helping other therapists and coaches build their successful private practice so that they could actually help the clients they were taught to help, and thrive themselves. I’m almost always fully booked, so my ability to work with individuals is limited. That is why I’ve created this program to deliver powerful results and create a community where you will feel supported by each other!
This program's primary goal is to help you build a thriving private practice, in a fun and authentic way. Counselors and coaches invest an incredible amount of time, money, and effort into building their helping skills. However, when their training ends, they usually find themselves lacking the business skills that are needed to start and run a successful private practice, feel isolated, discouraged and not knowing where to start.
I believe that to be truly helpful to others, therapists and coaches have to learn to thrive themselves and definitely know how to get clients whom they can help.
This is where this program comes in. If you're willing to learn and work hard, a 6-figure private practice is within your reach in a year - 2 years. This program will give you a clear outline, and detailed instructions on how to get there.
Rebecca Moravec Talks About Overcoming Obstacles For Private Practice Counselors
Sasha Raskin: Hi, Rebecca.
Rebecca Moravec: Hi, Sasha.
Sasha Raskin: Thank you for doing this interview with me. This is exciting.
Rebecca Moravec: Thank you for having me. It is exciting.
Sasha Raskin: So this is one in a long series of interviews, and just like we talked about before we just started thinking about the fact that during my counseling training and my coaching training I actually never heard stories of therapists talking about their experience of building their private practice. It was mostly a conversation about how can we be as helpful as possible to clients but not really how do we build the business that can allow us to work with clients if that's what we choose. And you have done a great work at that, so I'd love to hear about your experience, so maybe a good place to start is who you are, who you help and how.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, well, I'm Rebecca, most people call me Becca, and I'm a therapist in Denver. I'm a licensed professional counselor and a licensed marriage and family therapist. Tomorrow I complete my certification to be a certified intuitive eating counselor.
Sasha Raskin: Congratulations.
Rebecca Moravec: Thank you. And I just started my application to be an AMFC-approved supervisor. So that gives you a little bit of a taste of all the things that I do, but I'm in full-time private practice and I work with quite a few different populations but I specialize in millennials, so the age range. I mean, we could debate on what that means, but somewhere born between 1982 and 1992 is my sweet spot I would say just because I think generationally and I think that different generations bring different things to therapy.
But I work with couples who want to figure out how to have a deeply connected relationship that is also egalitarian. And I think that the reason I say millennials is often they didn't really have a model for that. Even if their parents thought that they were egalitarian, they probably weren't. There's a lot of gender roles that are deeply tied in that end up causing a lot of conflict in millennial couples.
And then I love working with women who want to heal their relationship with food and body image. Those are my two favorite things to do.
Sasha Raskin: Wonderful. And how long have you been in private practice?
Rebecca Moravec: So I've had a private practice for 10 years, this is my 10th year in private practice, but it's almost ...
Sasha Raskin: Big thing.
Rebecca Moravec: I know. I know. But it's only been full time, and this will be part of my story and part of my advice for people in practice, because I've only been full time for about four years. For the first six years I had another job which I believe was holding me back.
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, so let's talk about that, if you think about the milestones in your private practice, how did it start? What did actually lead you to thinking about, "Well, maybe it's time to do solo"?
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, I think that I was lucky to have people in my life who pushed me. I was kind of in a role at my full-time job where I was encouraging a lot of clinicians to go do private practice and to be successful, and I believed that, and I do believe that as helpers it's easy to take on kind of a martyr role of I will help but I won't take care of myself. And I was doing that, I was working in a job that wasn't paying me well, didn't have benefits and I was encouraging all these other people to go full-time private practice. And one person I was helping sat in my office and she said, "Well, why aren't you doing it?" And it was a question that ...
Sasha Raskin: What was the answer?
Rebecca Moravec: I think for me it's a lot of ... I think there's a lot of things. I think there's a messaging as a helping professional that we should just be selfless and not earn which is interesting. And I also think I was raised in a very middle-class family and I never saw that a woman could be an earner, like that wasn't something that was modeled for me. And so I kind of didn't see it for myself. Not consciously, but unconsciously, kind of thought what I was doing was what my life would be. Not making very much money and working really hard.
And so I think that that block was there. And I think once I began to have models in my life especially of women who were earning six figures in my profession I thought, "Wait a minute, I think that I could do that."
Sasha Raskin: So it really starts with the mindset which starts with actually seeing real examples of people that combine those seemingly unconnected boxes, right? Helping others and thriving yourself. And it's possible to do together.
Rebecca Moravec: Yes.
Sasha Raskin: And actually, yeah, maybe as a clinician I'm not doing my clients any favors if I'm under charging, burn out, right?
Rebecca Moravec: Exactly.
Sasha Raskin: Kind of, "Ugh, I wish my day would just end already," right? At the beginning.
Rebecca Moravec: Exactly, exactly. You just synthesized everything I said beautifully.
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, it's as if there's ... like the romantic idea of the starving musician, same like the starving clinician, right?
Rebecca Moravec: Yes, the starving clinician, yes.
Sasha Raskin: There's nothing romantic about that.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah. And societally I think we think that the helpers are okay with not taking care of themselves. And I think that's a really ... that's a good mentality if you just want to be burnt out.
Sasha Raskin: So while other people were encouraging you, you ask yourself the question, "What actually push you over the line of, okay, today I'm taking this step that would be actually a symbol of I started."
Rebecca Moravec: Well, that's a good question. I think it was just time. I think it was kind of if I don't do this now ... I mean, truly though the adage if not now when, like what will waiting gain me, right? Because the feeling of being ready, and this is a concept I apply in other places of my life, I think that that's a really interesting concept of we should be "ready", and I don't know what that means, right? I mean, I don't think there is an equation that says, "Okay, now you are ready for private practice. Now you're ready for full-time private practice." I think you have to more ask what are you wanting to do with your life and are you doing it?
Sasha Raskin: So you're saying there won't be like a lightning one day that will strike you with this understanding that now you're ready, right? It's actually taking action first and then ...
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, and I use this quote or I use this saying with my clients a lot and then I applied it to myself which is we choose one of two paths, Sasha, we choose comfortable misery or we choose painful growth, and so often people stay in comfortable misery.
Sasha Raskin: I love it.
Rebecca Moravec: I know, because they both kind of suck.
Sasha Raskin: I'm totally going to borrow it from you if you don't mind.
Rebecca Moravec: Please do. I borrowed it from someone else. So both suck, both are painful but people choose comfortable misery because they know what's there, but the choice to choose painful growth is courageous and at least there's light, right? There's light at the end. Well, not that I ever think there's an end. I don't think we ever "arrive". So I think it was the choice to choose painful growth, right? And painful meaning I wasn't sure if I'd be able to pay my bills, right? The security of a salary job. But the growth piece is doing what I always wanted to do.
Sasha Raskin: Well, what does it give you, being in private practice versus full-time job? What are the benefits.
Rebecca Moravec: Everything.
Sasha Raskin: The disadvantages, like people are very clear on when they think about going into private practice, right?
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, so what does it give me?
Sasha Raskin: Uh-hmm.
Rebecca Moravec: It gives me ... I mean, it gives me freedom, right? I design my own schedule. And I think the other big thing it gives me is it gives me the freedom to say how much I want to make a year.
Sasha Raskin: Actually plan it and decide for yourself, right?
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, I say, "This is how much I'm going to make and here's how I'm going to get there," and then you get there. And then I get to work with the clients that I want to work with. And I love being my own boss because for my personality working for someone else dulls my shine as a leader, right?
Sasha Raskin: So in all of those like the freedom is a big piece, right? Time freedom, money freedom and leadership freedom, right? You get to decide how you actually help people and when.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah. And I think the other big thing that I just love is it gives me relational freedom. And what I mean by that is my relationships are deeper because I have more time in my life for relationships. I mean, I used to work nine to six, right? And so I would leave my house at 8:15 and come home at 6:30, and that doesn't leave a lot of time for life to happen.
Sasha Raskin: Yeah.
Rebecca Moravec: And then there's laundry to be done and house cleaning to be done and cooking to be done, and pretty soon you're out of touch with friends, you're disconnected from your partner. Not that I don't think if you work a nine to five you can't have those things, but this working for myself has sure helped.
Sasha Raskin: So it's this groundhog day situation where you are working, working, working but why are you doing this in the first place?
Rebecca Moravec: Yes.
Sasha Raskin: What about the people you love and spending time with them and what is the lifestyle that you want to have.
Rebecca Moravec: And Sasha, something I remember is I used to go to the gym before work, and to make that happen I had to go at like 5:00AM. And I remember driving to my gym, I took a class at 5:00, I don't know, it started at 5:00 or 5:30 and I thought, "So this is my life." Like, I have to get up and go to the gym. If I want to move my body I have to wake up at a miserable time, I will like wake up at like 4:30 in the morning, and for what? Like, what is this all for? And now I can schedule if movement is important to you which is important to me, I can move my body, I can say, "Oh, I take time out of my schedule on these days to go do something that helps me show up in the rest of my life."
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, you get to decide. I remember a similar experience being in the Israeli army, also waking up like ridiculous times and vowing to myself, "When it's my say in the future I'll be giving myself some good sleep every night," right? And private practice is a part of it.
Rebecca Moravec: Yes.
Sasha Raskin: So how true were those fears that you had about, "Will I be able to pay my bills? What if it will all," that's a common one, "Crumble ad fall the next month even if I'm successful this month," how true were they?
Rebecca Moravec: They weren't true at all.
Sasha Raskin: Oh, okay.
Rebecca Moravec: And I know that I don't know that's everybody's experience, but my practice has just continued to build, every month has been better than the next. And when I plateaued I luckily was in consult groups with other therapists who encouraged me to do something to get out of my plateau.
Sasha Raskin: So constantly using new information and the advice of others to continue going.
Rebecca Moravec: And I think the fear at first, sure, I was making less money than I was in my salary job, right? For the first few months things were tighter, but that was part of the painful growth, it was saying, "Okay, I'm willing to not have as much or spend as much so that I can do this."
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, totally.
Rebecca Moravec: And there was a background trust that there will be a time where I'm making more than I was making my salary job so this is worth it.
Sasha Raskin: And there's a difference between full-time job is being 40 hours and more, usually, right? And full-time private practice considered to be 20 hours a week.
Rebecca Moravec: Yep.
Sasha Raskin: And there's a reason for that and there's definitely more free time. And if I'm earning five times more than my full-time job in private practice I can work less and probably be more helpful for client. How do you balance, I know that you're big on social activism and making sure that therapy is all inclusive, how do you balance treating your private practice as a business, figuring out all the expenses and etcetera, and taking care of your family, together with making sure that it's available to many?
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, I think this is a question I want to continue my entire life to look at. So currently I have a few spots that are reserved for adjusted fee clients, so I see students at an adjusted affordable rate. And then I have a few spots that I see clients pro bono. And I don't bend that, so let's say hypothetically there's six slots [unclear/cross talking 15:17], I don't extend it to a seventh and an eighth and a ninth, because I know how many full paying clients I need.
And then the other piece is that I volunteer a lot of my time at a non-profit counseling center. So I have to trust that there are therapists who ... and it's not a perfect system, I think there's many flaws in the system, but there are therapists and therapy training centers that offer quality therapy for lower fees, and I want to ensure that quality therapy exists. But I can't personally take on the onus of making sure that therapy is accessible to all people via my own person. So I can be heavily involved in other systems.
And another thing I did was I joined the board of the Colorado association for marriage and family therapy for two years so that I could be involved in the legislation for mental health care. So I think those are three ways that I touch on accessibility.
And then the other thing I do is I host a podcast, my own podcast.
Sasha Raskin: How can people find it by the way?
Rebecca Moravec: Oh, it's called two therapists in therapy. I co-host it with a therapist, a brilliant therapist, Sarah Brill. And while it's not a replacement for therapy, our hope is to offer thoughts and mental health advice to a wider range of people where we talk about therapy topics.
Sasha Raskin: That's beautiful.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah. And then I'm pretty active on social media as well, again, not a substitute for therapy services but to offer an insight into the world of therapy and how to live a life that's more aligned with yourself. So there's all these touch points of spaces where I'm giving of myself but not giving myself away, if that makes sense.
Sasha Raskin: Totally makes sense. So the two big things that I hear, one is actually by having a successful private practice you actually have the time and the energy to do all those extra activities. And that contributes to beyond just working one-on-one with clients, right? Because many times counselors can get stuck on that - the only way I can help is working with clients one-on-one or one with a couple one, with a group one, right? And the second one is it's like this modern Robin Hood distribution of wealth, right? My high paying clients actually pay for the clients who cannot afford that in a way.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah.
Sasha Raskin: That's wonderful. So what would be your main tips for counselors who are just starting out their private practice? Let's say they made already the decision, "Okay, I'm going for it," right? And cash flow being probably one of the main first goals to actually sustain the business and having those first psychological wins in terms of clients coming in, okay, I can do this, right? Like, just so what you said, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, right? What would be your advice in terms of creating clients? What are some effective ways?
Rebecca Moravec: I think for me the most effective way is building relationships with other therapists. I know in my own life when anybody who knows me, I mean, I have family members, friends, acquaintances and people from my past who know I'm a therapist will reach out to me and say, "Do you have any referrals for me? I want to go to therapy?" And I refer them to the therapist that I'm in contact with, right? And I've found that it has worked the same way.
So for me the most important thing has been building relationships with other therapists and letting them know that I'm open, and not just in a marketing way, not just saying, "Hey, I'm a therapist, I'm available," but really being interested in how can we support each other in practice, right?
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, so building relationships kind of organically versus "the needy way," which is like, "Oh, can you send me clients?"
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah.
Sasha Raskin: And you're leading with helping them, right? I have clients for you and then it's reciprocating.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, yep. And so I don't know if I have a formula for that, but my guess is if somebody is a therapist they know a thing or two about authentic relationships, and so I would just encourage them to trust that. And you know when it's a relationship that clicks, right?
Sasha Raskin: Yes.
Rebecca Moravec: We feel connected and then being really intentional about pursuing that. And then the other big thing for me is building on that is when a group of therapists clicks is to create a consultation group that is intentional about meeting and continuing to support each other.
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, totally. So it's a really good point about networking in an authentic way. In the six-figure practice program, the private accelerator we run we have the online marketing part and we have the offline marketing which is building relationships. And many people's counselors get stuck. It's easier to reach out to people they know and it's more difficult to code reach, right? If I want to reach out to a few psychiatrists that might be good referral sources, how do I do that? So the advice is always lead with offering versus asking.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah.
Sasha Raskin: It's like, "I'm looking for a few psychiatrists to be able to refer clients to," right? And then it's kind of a no-brainer, of course, they want to connect with you unless they're full.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Sasha Raskin: So if we fast forward, let's say a therapist has 10 clients, right? It looks promising but then they kind of get stuck with 10 clients a week, right? They can't seem to build it further. What would be your advice then? And you mentioned plateauing in your private practice.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, so I think a big part of it is our belief. So I would first want to explore that therapist belief about their ability to see more clients, because I think that that actually was a block for myself. I remember meeting with a therapist friend of mine, we went for a walk and we've contracted to talk about numbers. And she said, "So how much are you bringing in a month?" And I told her and she was like, "Becca, that doesn't make any sense. You should be making more than that?" And I realized I didn't allow myself to think beyond that.
Sasha Raskin: Do you mid sharing a number? And we can break some taboos here, right? Counselors actually talking about numbers.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, totally. Yeah, so well, so it's interesting, yes, we're going to break some taboos. So first I was like I was very comfortable which now feels, and this is ... I was very comfortable bringing in like 5 to $6,000 a month and she was like, "You should be bringing in more." And so she pushed me, and then I got to eight and then I had another of her response that said, "You should probably be bringing in more," right? And so the goal here or the goal would be a minimum of $10,000 a month.
Sasha Raskin: So six-figure practice is the goal.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, a six-figure practice is truly the goal, yes.
Sasha Raskin: That's why I called it that way. Yeah, that's why I called it the private practice accelerator. That way not because it's the main goal but it's a symbol, right? It's a great symbol of you're not under charging, your clients vote with their feet or with their eyes during Covid, right? And you're really serving and helping people. They (a) stay, and (b) they tell their friends about it and you're respected by your colleagues and they send clients to you. And you have all the marketing systems in place.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah.
Sasha Raskin: Why do you think a 10K number would be a good monthly income for you? At least.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, I think that's a good minimum income for me because I think that (a) allows me to invest back into my business, it allows me to pay myself a salary that is comfortable to pay all my bills and be able to travel and be able to do the things I want to do.
When you're building your own business or when you're in business for yourself you don't want to be living paycheck to paycheck. So I think that number allows you to live a comfortable life or begin to have financial stability of your own.
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, so having a good lifestyle, a comfortable lifestyle, and also no one's paying your pension and no one's paying your health insurance, no one's paying for your office if you have an office, right?
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah.
Sasha Raskin: It's all of those things.
Rebecca Moravec: I mean, I find, I truly find 10,000 a month as the minimum with all those expenses. And so it makes me question how I was doing it with less. I mean, I just wasn't making any money I guess, right? So it allows you to invest in your life, which is something I would want for all of my clients so I need to want that for myself.
Sasha Raskin: What would you say ... I remember doing a workshop about money for therapists in AGP, American group psychotherapy association, and we went around the circle and people are saying their emotions related to money. Money is a great fear, like pretty much none of it was like good, is happiness. And what would you say to a therapist that heals the number of 10K and they feel, "Oh, this is a greedy therapist. I would never do that."
Rebecca Moravec: I would ask them to look at their relationship with money and I would look at ... I would ask them to look at all the messages where they got there. I mean, I first want to come out with understanding, I get that because I was one of those therapists, right?
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, same here.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, I'm like, "I just want to help people." But here's what I truly know is that I can better help people and I can better help as a systemic therapist, as a family therapist, I think systems-wise I can better give systemically when I'm well taken care of, right?
Sasha Raskin: Yes.
Rebecca Moravec: Because money anxiety and money fear and the complicated relationship about money when it becomes a non-issue you're more free, you're more free to be giving of your time. I'm also more free to be giving of my money, right?
Sasha Raskin: Investing in your business and your education you mean?
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, investing in my business, my education and philanthropy as well, right? The ability to give a donation to a counseling center. But you also bring up a good point - investing in my own education. I remember a time where going to another training was a huge deal, a huge financial commitment, right? And so it made me not do a lot of those extra things that I wanted to do. And the ability to sign up for a new certification or a new training without thinking and without it devastating my finances benefits my clients. I am a much better therapist because I can freely do whatever training I want to do.
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, I love that. So you're be able to help them better and help them faster, right?
Rebecca Moravec: Yes.
Sasha Raskin: I truly believe it. I remember going to the Gottman training and this is literally the first thing that John Gottman said, that it's not enough to kind of be helpful to your clients. It needs to be fast enough and big of a change enough, right? And I think counselors that are taking years and years to compassionately nod with their clients and give them short-term relief, airing out their problems but change is not happening, I think they're not doing any real service to their clients.
Rebecca Moravec: Yes.
Sasha Raskin: I mean, that might be some radical belief here, but that's what I think, right? And counselors don't have a budget for education. It's exactly what you're saying. Every time if they don't have a successful practice it's a struggle, it's like, "Uh, should I go for it or should I not?" And for myself I know I have 50K budget a year for education, and I can then ... it's such a privilege, USA is my third country and like I have access to some of the best minds in the world, right? I'm one flight ticket away from like training with the best, right? People who literally, like in family therapy training with Cloé Madanes, right? And again, that was amazing, yeah, in couples' therapy just going and training with all the best ones. And I feel I'm growing as a counselor and I don't feel it's a strain on me.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah, and that's what your clients are paying for, right? It's like they're not spending their time doing these trainings and reading and to have a therapist who is spending the time outside of session, learning so I can better help you is huge. And for me to be able to do that I need to be able to be making a living that affords me that privilege.
Sasha Raskin: And even math-wise, I'm very clear on I have higher prices for some and I have a sliding scale and pro bono slots like you have. And I know that I can help them reach their goal just based on my experience with six to 12 sessions versus years and years, right? So the math actually is on their side as well.
Rebecca Moravec: Yes. And I think the other thing; I just raised my prices because my group practice encouraged me to, right? And each time I do that I have anxiety because I still have money fears. But I think the other thing I would tell therapists is we don't have to be the therapist for everyone, right? And I think that as helpers we sometimes think like, "If I can't help this person then I'm bad and what does that mean." And I say, "It's okay to not be everything to everyone."
Sasha Raskin: Yes, and it's okay to say yes and versus no, right? It's like, "Yes, it's not a good fit for us to work together. And I know two great therapists who might be. Here are their contacts."
Rebecca Moravec: Absolutely.
Sasha Raskin: So it's going together with the community versus "losing clients" when it's not a good fit.
Rebecca Moravec: Yep.
Sasha Raskin: So what do you think, maybe to conclude, what are the main things you learn looking back from this journey of building your own business as a counselor and maybe things that you would have liked to hear or understand sooner than later?
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah. You can be a good therapist and a helper and a compassionate person and still make a good living. And you get to define what a good living is. And if there's anxiety that comes up around that number just like we would tell our own clients, "There's work to be done there," right?
Sasha Raskin: Yes.
Rebecca Moravec: That's worth looking at if we're resistant. I mean, I think one of my favorite things is when I feel resistant I need to run towards that instead of away from it.
Sasha Raskin: Yes, it's a sign, right?
Rebecca Moravec: Yes.
Sasha Raskin: This is something to work with. I don't know if that's your experience. It's definitely been mine. I have some clients who would share the biggest drama during the first or second session, but they will not talk about money for a long time if I don't go there.
Rebecca Moravec: Yeah. I think that it's interesting; so much has become not taboo because of social media, things that people used to not discuss, but money is still one of those things we don't discuss. And there's such a close tie. It's interesting, the word that keeps popping into my mind, and I think you said this, is selfishness and greedy. And it's really interesting how in a capitalistic society we have so many people who are just so afraid of those things, right?
Sasha Raskin: Yes.
Rebecca Moravec: And that we automatically assume if you are well taken care of it's because you're selfish and greedy, not because you're a good and compassionate business person.
Sasha Raskin: Yeah, I met a lot of selfish, greedy people who were barely making a living and some really good, compassionate people who are creating a real big positive impact on the world with their businesses.
Rebecca Moravec: Yes. And I think if you have a beautiful reframe and a truth. And I think the other thing I would tell practitioners is that abundance is for you and that includes in money, that includes in your practice, that includes in ... not just abundance and love for your clients, abundance and compassion, but also abundance of you being taken care of.
Sasha Raskin: Rebecca, this has been so helpful and I learned a lot too.
Rebecca Moravec: Thanks, Sasha.
Sasha Raskin: If therapists want to connect with you, if they want to talk to you about supervision or anything that you mentioned today even, how can they find you?
Rebecca Moravec: They can find me at fullbloomcounseling.com, Full Bloom, and/or on social media, @millennialtherapist.
Sasha Raskin: That's such a cool niche by the way.
Rebecca Moravec: Thanks.
Sasha Raskin: Wonderful. All right, Rebecca. Thank you so much.
Rebecca Moravec: Thanks, Sasha.
